Far Shiverpeaks
Community information => Issues & Enquiries => Topic started by: Yai-Kai on November 02, 2015, 10:35:20
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Ok so,
First off, I haven't been in WvW that much since HoT hit, so this might not be an accurate view of things, but it's what I've experienced, and as someone who loves this server, I experience this as a problem.
Since HoT hit, the WvW TS channels have been more abandoned than the wasteland in the fallout games, even during prime time. Ok, I get that, new content etc, mastery gating and whatnot.
Then when I go to EB anyway (which still has a 10+ queue) to have a look around, and I see a tag, it's only natural that I go to the tag, right?
Apparently, going to that tag and following it gets me thrown insults (I'm not going to name people here, I've seen these people around a lot, and I know they are respected members of the community, which is probably for a reason. I don't see it as my task to call them out, it's just a few incidents vs so many good things in the past.) for not being in their guild, that I'm disturbing their closed raid and that I should go back to PvE like the scrub I am.
I'm sorry, but I find this very disturbing, considering how friendly and welcoming the FSP WvW community was before HoT hit.
Can I not be a PvX player, that has a very nice PvE guild, and still enjoy WvW when I feel like it? Do I really have to get shood away and insulted for not being in the top WvW guilds?
As I said, I'm not gonna call people out, it's not my place to do that. But I do hope this attitude changes, rather sooner than later, because right now I don't even feel like joining TS let alone join EB to see who's commanding.
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Can I not be a PvX player, that has a very nice PvE guild, and still enjoy WvW when I feel like it? Do I really have to get shood away and insulted for not being in the top WvW guilds?
Simple answer, no you don't but it's the case lately. Guilds apparently don't like the new borderlands and thus go EB, which is something I can't blame them for nor do I find unreasonable. People are allowed to play what they want, how they do it is different story.
In my case it was a guild on EB closed raiding, not signing themselves up for the spreadsheet. When following this closed raid they ask us to fuck off and get our own open commander. Who is in queue thanks to their closed raid. If you have the balls to close raid on EB without signing up, getting our commander in queue then accept the consequences like a man of us following you.
About the question whether it will change, no. Not until guilds are going to the normal borderlands again, and that is their own choice to do. Their behaviour is person and guild depending, not all are like that. The ones that are, won't change nor care.
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A closed raid is a closed raid; you don't follow without their consent.
I don't get why a closed raid should "accept the consequences" of having a closed raid... even if they did not sign up on a spreadsheet and even if the pugs commander is queueing.
*pug speaking btw*
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So everybody should move out of their way, unable to play properly without commander just because one guild didn't care to sign up? If they don't want to follow our community rules, they don't exactly have right to complain when we don't either. Whether it's justified or not, is another discussion.
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no offense but having a closedguild raid in eb is just selfish imo.
eb is only place for pug to go primetime, bl are full of guilds, so no chance to tag blue, and get a group who can fight anything.
so if guild raid EB, they take mb 20-30 spots aleast, leaving a blue tag with not enogh ppl to fight the blobs:-(, so if guild raid on eb, they should atleast make it a open raid imo
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Well in last days we did raid in bls and it happened so many times to see pugs following us and it starts to be annoying since these people are from known guilds, I understand there are no more public for now, but it's not an excuse to follow a guild raid. Also if a guild do not signup on EBG spreadsheet you should speak with someone from committee regarding that.
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I think that's pretty childish to say "I won't respect them 'cause I think they don't respect me or pugs"; "respect" is pretty subjective in here.
The guild may want to be part of the community... or not; guild may want to coexist peacefully with the community... or not.
edit : +1 Rajel.
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no offense but having a closedguild raid in eb is just selfish imo.
eb is only place for pug to go primetime, bl are full of guilds, so no chance to tag blue, and get a group who can fight anything.
so if guild raid EB, they take mb 20-30 spots aleast, leaving a blue tag with not enogh ppl to fight the blobs:-(, so if guild raid on eb, they should atleast make it a open raid imo
Yeah this was how it was pre HoT.
Ok, I understand, closed raid is closed raid (even though I don't really see the point in closed raids, more people = more firepower, but I guess that's not the correct logic here, my bad for being a pug :) )
I also understand that the new borderlands are unfamiliar, but if you're in a closed raid with people you know, figuring out the new borderland shouldn't be a problem, right? Anet put A LOT of work in the new borderlands, I refuse to believe that they are bad, more just unfamiliar after 3 years of having the other ones.
If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me here.
Roïs: I can't speak for every pug here, but for me personally, I always ask 'open or closed' when I enter a WvW map, if they would just reply 'closed, but x comm will be tagging up later', sure, good luck and enjoy the fights, but going 'its closed you blind fool, go back to pve you scrub' is just VERY disrespectful no matter HOW you look at it.
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Roïs: I can't speak for every pug here, but for me personally, I always ask 'open or closed' when I enter a WvW map, if they would just reply 'closed, but x comm will be tagging up later', sure, good luck and enjoy the fights, but going 'its closed you blind fool, go back to pve you scrub' is just VERY disrespectful no matter HOW you look at it.
If you politely ask, then ofc they should/could answer the same way; if you follow without asking anything, they could ask not to follow in a polite way too... but life is life, not everybody (pugs or guild members) can or want to speak courteously; but that's not a reason to act the same way, imo.
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@Yai-Kai, you have to take things lightly. When someone says "its closed you blind fool, go back to pve you scrub", he is clearly trying to tell you not to following them while trying to be humorous referring to HoT and not insulting you :D.
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Also if a guild do not signup on EBG spreadsheet you should speak with someone from committee regarding that.
Who would that actually be now? Bez?
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Are you asking to me when you are part of committee?
Also I would be carefull to defend pugs, because we tried to raid on ebg the previous matchup since the bls was dead and one pug started to follow us with the blue tag, I asked him politely via whisp to stop following with a tag and instead he was typing in map chat to follow him when he was 100% on our back, it's pointless to defend pugs and it's pointless to accuse/defend guilds, let's behave like adults and these problem wont happen.
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it's pointless to defend pugs and it's pointless to accuse/defend guilds
ahhh Rajel, i know u dont mean that :-)
that said, i just hope we can find away, where guild + pugs can get along ( also in ebg)
so i hope we can diskuss this in a mature way :-)
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How can I defend pugs when one dude putted a blue tag to get all pugs on us for like 1 hours +? Just reminding that guilds are made of people as well and that hour raid in ebg was horrible for my guildies, one more reason to not make public raid anymore, if pugs wants to annoy FSP commanders they will have no public raid, easy.
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bc its one guy ( as ive read it ?) so no reason to put all pugs under that banner
we are lots of adult /friendly pugs on fsp who just want to play and have fun.
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To be honest I never had problem with fsp pugs, the most funny open raid I had it was here on fsp, the problem is that people can use the brain, if one dude want to troll us and put a blue tag, why do you even follow him and feed the troll? It's not one dude, ok one guy putted the tag, but the rest of the people followed him. We even ported to spawn -> keep -> spawn -> keep -> sm and they were just porting with us, so you see that you cannot only blame one guy but also the others.
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i c ur point :-(
but then again, being a pug on fsp primetime atm aint easy.
only place we can find a commander is in ebg, if tt makes a closed raid on ebg. then u lock rest of none tt ppl on ebg. ( bc blue tag cant get enogh ppl)
so far ebg has been the only bl where pugs can go and have a raid :-(
im not saying that agree with the troll ( bc imo theres room for all on fsp), im just saying this from a pugs view.
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Always same story or not wow.
Last meeting i heared people saying eb is for pugs and guilds need to be on borderlands.
now people dont wanna raid new maps they go closed ebg?
So confused now.
And whwn people troll you can get trolled bqck easy as that
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When we joined ebg there were no commander and not even queue tho.
Well as I've said in other 3d, pugs can organize themselves, otherwise if they have no commander/no raids/no nothing they cannot blame since they are "pugs", if some pugs want to raid often and improve I believe fsp guilds will recruit em like they always did.
Who did say guilds want to raid on ebg? Haiwat don't say things that NOBODY have ever said.
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so far pugs have used ebg to get organize.
u cant as pug go bl jumping to gather ppl, some ppl who only have time to play 1-2 a week, they just want a place to go, where they can play (referring to ebg)
we cant just join a guild, where u have to raid min 3-4 times a week
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I repeat myself again, pugs can organize themselves and make their own guilds with their own rules, I know "already cooked food" (like we say in my country) taste better, but sometimes you have to cook on your own.
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so again, if u not in a guild, u dont get to raid ???
well imo that aint fair :-( there should be room for everyone here on fsp :-) also those who just want to hook up with other ppl who have same interest
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Wow I'm kind of impressed by how many responses this got.
Guys, the question from my original post remains.
Can't people like PvX and be in a PvE guild, and do WvW on occasion?
Many of us don't like joining multiple guilds (mostly because almost all of them ask for 90% representing, which is impossible if you're in multiple ones), but let's say that can be worked around.
So if we can't raid 3-4 times per week, we can't be in a WvW guild, which means we can't WvW at all. Because that's what it's boiling down to.
Sure, like Rajel says, we can make a pug guild, but what's the point in making YET ANOTHER guild when there are so many WvW guilds out there to begin with. Also, things were fine before HoT, why did everything get so weird all of a sudden?
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Are you asking to me when you are part of committee?
As far as I know, I am not part of committee.
and yes yak-Kai, hasn't been busy on forum I suppose so it's finally something people can respond to :P Things get weird because many people are frustrated by new BL. I would say to just give it a couple weeks and all is back to normal.
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Sure, like Rajel says, we can make a pug guild, but what's the point in making YET ANOTHER guild when there are so many WvW guilds out there to begin with. Also, things were fine before HoT, why did everything get so weird all of a sudden?
You know, there's this really nice "pug guild" called FSPG (Far Shiverpeaks Guild) - you're more than welcome to join for some WvW funtime :)
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To answer your question, yes, you may like PvX and be part of a PvE guild and do WvW on occasion.
If you want to join a WvW guild to do so, you'll have to comply with their rules... usually WvW guild ask for 3 to 5 primetime raids a week attendance and some of them for a 100% guild representation (at least in WvW). If you can't afford that, you'll have to look for a more casual or cooler WvW guild, a multifield one, or you' ll have to deal with being a roamer or a pug (and follow pugs commander whenever there is one).
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Are you asking to me when you are part of committee?
As far as I know, I am not part of committee.
http://farshiverpeaks.com/index.php?page=team
lol
By the way regarding your question, ofc pver can go wvw, I'm Mr. Nobody to say how people should play, just do not be surprised if guilds will tell you to not follow, anyway it's even more easy, if you see a Yellow tag means guild raid, so you don't even have to go and ask ;)
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Are you asking to me when you are part of committee?
As far as I know, I am not part of committee.
http://farshiverpeaks.com/index.php?page=team
lol
Yes so that is Dansker, Bez and Nora. I am in the rest of the team > ts moderator, merely a contact person for committee.
If you can't afford that, you'll have to look for a more casual or cooler WvW guild, a multifield one, or you' ll have to deal with being a roamer or a pug (and follow pugs commander whenever there is one).
Do we even have such guild besides FSPG? If there is then don't blame me, I don't keep up nor interested in guilds atm.
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I don't think grammar is an option, rest of the team of the committee, so if 1+1=2 you are part of the committee.
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Have to admit ... pugs are too toxic
http://imgur.com/YBSGOJz (http://imgur.com/YBSGOJz)
you cannot give a chance or be nice with every pug, when some of them are toxic, and follow you with an blue tag, telling to the rest of the pugs to join your channel :)
You espect guilds to be nice ?
He He He
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I don't think grammar is an option, rest of the team of the committee, so if 1+1=2 you are part of the committee.
k. Feel free to write some hatred to me then as well next time, let's spread it around over committee a bit so it doesn't all get so personal on one person. The others in committee already had their taste I think?, I'll be waiting.
(sorry to the peeps about our random conversation in this thread)
Edit: not making anymore replies for random conversation with Rajel (sorry again)
Ok have it your way, feel free to suggest any tasks for me as `committee` cause currently I got none.
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Why do you even take it personal? I'm just saying that you are part of the committee and your icon on ts even show it.
http://imgur.com/izdeEWX
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Have to admit ... pugs are too toxic
http://imgur.com/YBSGOJz (http://imgur.com/YBSGOJz)
you cannot give a chance or be nice with every pug, when some of them are toxic, and follow you with an blue tag, telling to the rest of the pugs to join your channel :)
You espect guilds to be nice ?
He He He
Yes, I expect guilds with a big name like TT (and others, of course) to be nice.
You carry a certain weight in this community, and taking the time to type 'closed raid, sorry' takes less time than 'you fucking noob stop following us' (not saying you typed those words, I saw your screenshot, I'm just giving an example here)
Also, you're talking like pugs are a pest that don't belong in wvw to begin with. I'm sorry for not agreeing with that idea. I've seen you and so many others command blobs, winning fights 20 vs 50 simply because we had superior commanders, you couldn't have done that without those pugs following your orders.
Sorry if this came off as hostile, I don't mean it to sound like that, I'm just expressing my opinion :)
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Pugs are always the same in 3 years of GW2...what do you expect? But the point is different imo...why all guilds want to play in EBG and not in the other Desert (really desert XD) borders?
EBG is too small for all the pugs and guilds of FSP but there are 3 more border. I know...people want Alpine map back but it's time for guilds to use it or EBG will implode soon.
Ah many pugs don't read this forum so writing here about them is pretty useless...
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Why do you even take it personal? I'm just saying that you are part of the committee and your icon on ts even show it.
http://imgur.com/izdeEWX
Its been explained such a sad amount of times before, but I'll explain it again.
Committee tag on teamspeak has been made to make giving rights on teamspeak for moderators and admins easier.
The only CURRENT members in the committee are:
- Nora
- Bezainas
- Dansker
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Have to admit ... pugs are too toxic
http://imgur.com/YBSGOJz (http://imgur.com/YBSGOJz)
you cannot give a chance or be nice with every pug, when some of them are toxic, and follow you with an blue tag, telling to the rest of the pugs to join your channel :)
You espect guilds to be nice ?
He He He
Yes, I expect guilds with a big name like TT (and others, of course) to be nice.
You carry a certain weight in this community, and taking the time to type 'closed raid, sorry' takes less time than 'you fucking noob stop following us' (not saying you typed those words, I saw your screenshot, I'm just giving an example here)
Also, you're talking like pugs are a pest that don't belong in wvw to begin with. I'm sorry for not agreeing with that idea. I've seen you and so many others command blobs, winning fights 20 vs 50 simply because we had superior commanders, you couldn't have done that without those pugs following your orders.
Sorry if this came off as hostile, I don't mean it to sound like that, I'm just expressing my opinion :)
It's like you are saying we (TT) are a big supermarket cooperation that should be nice to all of our customers. You should try to place yourself in our situation. Every time we go to a WP several people start following us, we ask them (politely) to stop following us in say chat. Most of the times you will find this doesn't work, so we have to whisper them instead and that's all we can do. Having to this multiple times is really frustrating and that might explain why some people become toxic. In the end, we always try to be polite every single time, however with the continuous tendency of people trying to troll closed raids you might find guilds getting more toxic very fast.
Regarding your arguments:
- It might take less actual time to reply politely, but one has to consider how much more effort it takes to keep replying politely.
- "like pugs are a pest that don't belong in wvw to begin with. I'm sorry for not agreeing with that idea. I've seen you and so many others command blobs, winning fights 20 vs 50 simply because we had superior commanders, you couldn't have done that without those pugs following your orders." PuGs are a pest in organised WvW, we probably could have done that without those pugs, but merely with the people we know.
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Why do you even take it personal? I'm just saying that you are part of the committee and your icon on ts even show it.
http://imgur.com/izdeEWX
Its been explained such a sad amount of times before, but I'll explain it again.
Committee tag on teamspeak has been made to make giving rights on teamspeak for moderators and admins easier.
The only CURRENT members in the committee are:
- Nora
- Bezainas
- Dansker
I dont know if you guys are trolling me or not but the page says:
"Here on Far Shiverpeaks we have a small team of people helping out with various tasks on the server such as mediators between guilds, server recruitment, the TeamSpeak, the Website, etc. All of this stuff takes time and effort and these few people have made themselves available to help out with these things.
We're currently under the name of 'FSP Committee' however we don't rule with an iron fist, we try to give the community a heads up on any decisions we need to make so we can get some feedback from our fellow far shiverpeakians!"
so ye website team and ts team are part of committee, I don't understand why you refuse em, they are still good guys :)
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Why do you even take it personal? I'm just saying that you are part of the committee and your icon on ts even show it.
http://imgur.com/izdeEWX
Its been explained such a sad amount of times before, but I'll explain it again.
Committee tag on teamspeak has been made to make giving rights on teamspeak for moderators and admins easier.
The only CURRENT members in the committee are:
- Nora
- Bezainas
- Dansker
I dont know if you guys are trolling me or not but the page says:
"Here on Far Shiverpeaks we have a small team of people helping out with various tasks on the server such as mediators between guilds, server recruitment, the TeamSpeak, the Website, etc. All of this stuff takes time and effort and these few people have made themselves available to help out with these things.
We're currently under the name of 'FSP Committee' however we don't rule with an iron fist, we try to give the community a heads up on any decisions we need to make so we can get some feedback from our fellow far shiverpeakians!"
Yep and followed by the Main Contacts a.k.a. "the committee".
But as long as it makes sense in your little world thats all good.
I guess words and letters are sometimes hard to understand, but it's allright. We all deserve love and respect.
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In my little world lol ok I let you believe santa claus exist :)
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In my little world lol ok I let you believe santa claus exist :)
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What do you mean...
He doesn't exist?
Can anyone confirm this?
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If there is a guild raid (closed) no matter where, just fuck off! Guys i don't know why you crying so hard, you can't force a commander to command for you. If the commander wants closed, they can iTS their dicision. Tag up your self if you know iT all better and blame guilds. The attitude of 'i can follow whoever i want, cuz im the best' go kill yourself pls. Let guilds raid how they want. Or join one if you want to follow them. Don't go cry pls
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This is a thread..I feel like I'm in 2012..lol. If you see a guild raid, don't follow it, whatever the case is. Yellow tag=off limits..simple as a pie. This pug against guild debate is so old, so Deso, so SFR or even Aurora. Not FSP anymore, don't bring it back. Another funny thing is, some people just wait for someone from TT or Rajel to post something, and baaam. Worse when you have a color with your forum name. That's low and presumptuous.
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So a guild decided to go to EB without filling the allmighty spreadsheet and shows no respect to other players that just go to the tag in EB... classy. First learn how to use the spreadsheet than act like grown-ups if someone tries to follow.
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Sometimes there is no fights so guilds go EB..... Do you want them to sign up in spreadsheet anyway even if its 1 hour after prime time ? Let's say they did, would it make any difference ?
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Sometimes there is no fights so guilds go EB..... Do you want them to sign up in spreadsheet anyway even if its 1 hour after prime time ? Let's say they did, would it make any difference ?
It's not always the point whether it would make a difference or not. Especially since I think OP mainly means to discuss the attitude atm and not whether what is justified/allowed/to blame etc. Can't blame anybody for going to the map they like, but at least signing up on the spreadsheet would be nice. It won't change much to the actual problem but at least.. you know.. they tried, somewhat. If there is a queue then people can also check the spreadsheet to see what is actually going on in there.
People / guilds expect pugs to co-operate when they are the ones insulting and showing no intention of fixing the problem or apologizing for not signing up. Like I said before, if following the guild anyway is another discussion for me.
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Imo EB is for the pugs during prime-time and if guilds go EB they shouldnt badmouth the pugs that go to EB and stick to a commander tag.
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you can't force a commander to command for you.
Just like you cant force someone not to follow you.
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Another funny thing is, some people just wait for someone from TT or Rajel to post something, and baaam. Worse when you have a color with your forum name. That's low and presumptuous.
I think it mostly has something to do with the maturity of certain people's posts.
I know you're referring to me and yes, when I see someone post something that is incorrect then I try to correct.
And we've had this discussion about the committee dozens of times, on the forum, shoutbox and even during meetings.
Committee was 4 people, Goldi left the committee so now it is 3 more people in the committee who are named in one of my earlier posts.
So stop trying to stir up old drama and try to be constructive.
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Endless debate?
I'm kind of sad, being a pug, to read such narrow-minded speach willing to "defend" pugs right... and that makes me want to go back to a WvW guild.
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Endless debate?
I'm kind of sad, being a pug, to read such narrow-minded speach willing to "defend" pugs right... and that makes me want to go back to a WvW guild.
Well, imho I dont think people should be forced to join a WvW guild to be able to raid. Everyone bought the game with their own money and nowhere in the rules does it say you HAVE TO BE in a WvW guild.
But yes, its an endless debate that will never end or amount to a usefull outcome.
And im sorry you feel like that.
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Another funny thing is, some people just wait for someone from TT or Rajel to post something, and baaam. Worse when you have a color with your forum name. That's low and presumptuous.
I think it mostly has something to do with the maturity of certain people's posts.
I know you're referring to me and yes, when I see someone post something that is incorrect then I try to correct.
And we've had this discussion about the committee dozens of times, on the forum, shoutbox and even during meetings.
Committee was 4 people, Goldi left the committee so now it is 3 more people in the committee who are named in one of my earlier posts.
So stop trying to stir up old drama and try to be constructive.
Ye indeed be constructive, put a tag up and lead pugs so many people speaking and defending pugs, but actually I led more hours than some pugs lawyers in this topic, when I never saw these lawyers leading em.
Lancelot for me is a pleasure to see people committing in a forum to speak against me, they speak about maturity....trololol :)
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Ah ok you need to be an active commander to have an opinion about behaviour towards PUG players.
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(http://i.imgur.com/IOjcLKk.jpg?1)
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We should all smoke some weed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnS-05XoXs4
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I don't know Yomiji you make look the ts team so retarded with your replies, I just remind you that you wanted to join TT in order to have some people following you but you never led in like 2 months, so please stop bullshitting me, you speak too much without any clue.
But yea, its my fault for having had 3 surgeries in the last 5 months and having to have another one in two weeks.
If only I didnt get surgeries to solve my life threathening issues and simply commanded some more.
So you had these irl problems (sorry for you) and you applied as ts admin in the poll? And you even accepted ts mod? If you cannot play you shouldnt apply for ts admin and accept the ts mod, it's about fairness, but it's a concept that you don't understand :)
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Ah ok you need to be an active commander to have an opinion about behaviour towards PUG players.
I guess so.
But yea, its my fault for having had 3 surgeries in the last 5 months and having to have another one in two weeks.
If only I didnt get surgeries to solve my life threathening issues and simply commanded some more.
I knew it had to be my fault, I should have known DAMN IT.
Thanks for pointing out to me that its my fault Rajel!
and i thought the thread cant get more offtopic...now you start with your personal life storys *sadface
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I don't know Yomiji you make look the ts team so retarded with your replies, I just remind you that you wanted to join TT in order to have some people following you but you never led in like 2 months, so please stop bullshitting me, you speak too much without any clue.
But yea, its my fault for having had 3 surgeries in the last 5 months and having to have another one in two weeks.
If only I didnt get surgeries to solve my life threathening issues and simply commanded some more.
So you had these irl problems (sorry for you) and you applied as ts admin in the poll? And you even accepted ts mod? If you cannot play you shouldnt apply for ts admin and accept the ts mod, it's about fairness, but it's a concept that you don't understand :)
Yes, cause I can only manage teamspeak from in-game right?
And the actual reason I did apply to join the TS team is BECAUSE I cant play the game itself much.
Thus still trying to be usefull to the community as in being there when trolls etc need to be banned or kicked.
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This is where a forum mod should step in and lock the thread. Any volunteers?
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Not offcially a forum mod - but locking the topic :) I think all relevant things have been said :P